On Wednesday morning, Glenn Beck interviewed me on his radio show on Iran, End Times Bible prophecy, The Twelfth Imam, and his new documentary film, Rumors of War, which I helped his team with. Many of you emailed me that you had missed the interview and wanted to find out where you could listen to it. Here is a transcript of our interview. Also, here is an online video of the interview. We’ll hopefully post the audio podcast of it soon. Please go to the “Epicenter Team” page on Facebook to post your comments.
One further note: In Glenn’s documentary film, at the end I explain that as a follower of Jesus Christ, I do believe we are living in the last days, based on the teachings of the Bible about what signs to watch for. Among these signs are not only rumors of wars, but major wars themselves, particularly wars waged in the Middle East and specifically against Israel and the Jewish people. As I said on camera, we are to pray for peace, the Bible teaches, but we are also to prepare for war — that is, followers of Jesus Christ are supposed to get ready for the wars that will come by caring for the poor and needy in the region today, and stockpiling food, medical equipment, and other humanitarian relief aid so we can be respond quickly and with Christ’s compassion when rumors of war turn to reality. That’s why we started The Joshua Fund in 2006. Please learn more about what we’re doing — and please get involved — at www.joshuafund.net.
GLENN BECK: There are a few people that I have met in my career in the last ten years, and there are just a handful that I think really truly believe what they say, really truly are trying to find the answer and let the chips fall where they may, and are willing to say the insane or dangerous thing because they’ve tried to explain it away and they — no matter what they try to do, it won’t go away. The facts are the facts. Joel Rosenberg is one of those guys. Joel was working for the Israeli government for a while, was an advisor for prime minister, I think it was Benjamin Netanyahu, I can’t remember, and he is a newfound Christian and converted and was really looking into, you know, scriptures. And he was on a plane and he and the prime minister were talking about something and he realized, oh, dear heavens, that’s a sign. And dedicated his life to this because he really truly believes we are living in dangerous times. And I don’t want to put words in his mouth, but the end times? Quite possibly. How long that time lasts is, you know, beyond us. He is also a guy that when I started looking into the twelfth imam and I started to have that conversation with my own research team and I started saying, well, wait a minute, wait a minute, I think this is the exact opposite. This is the bad guy to the Christians. But to the Twelvers in Iran, he’s the good guy. And the story lines match up almost identically to the book of Revelation except it’s the polar opposite. Joel believes some of these things, many of these things, and so do I. And he has dedicated his life to get the word out. Joel Rosenberg is on with us now. Hello, Joel, how are you?
[Note: Just a quick point of clarification — while I did work in 2000 for Benjamin Netanyahu, I did so while he was a private citizen, not as Prime Minister, and thus I didn’t work for the Israeli government. And the conversation he’s referring to on the plane was with Israel’s former Deputy Prime Minister Natan Sharansky, as I describe in Epicenter. One more thing: I came to faith in Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord in 1975, but was definitely studying Bible prophecy more in-depth when I was working for Netanyahu and Sharansky. Looking back, I’d wished I taken a moment to correct those points on-air. JCR]
ROSENBERG: Good to be with you again, Glenn. How are you? I’m good.
GLENN: Very good. You’re the author of The Twelfth Imam and you also have helped us on the Part One of Rumors of War. I’m getting e-mail this morning: Why did you name it Rumors of War, Glenn? Joel, do you want to explain why I named this the documentary Rumors of War?
ROSENBERG: I’m just spit-balling here, but I’m thinking it was from Matthew Chapter 24 where when Jesus was asked by his disciples on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, hey, when are you coming back? Give us one sign of the end of the age. Jesus didn’t just give him just one sign. He could have given him a very Washington political answer: No comment, next question. But he actually gave a whole list of signs.
GLENN: Jesus in press conferences.
ROSENBERG: And one of them was you’ll see wars and rumors of wars and unfortunately those were only some of the –
ROSENBERG: You know, those were only two of the signs. One of them that was — that false Messiahs would come in the last days of which I think the twelfth imam is one. So I appreciate what you’ve done. I can’t think of other national commentators that focus this type of attention not just on end times prophecy alone. That’s important, I think. But the fact that the only regime in modern history that I’m aware of that is being driven right now by an end times theology, a quite dangerous one, would be the government of Iran. Didn’t seem to merit more than a sentence in the State of the Union last night, but this is important and I appreciate you bringing attention to it.
GLENN: Joel, I tell you even the Nazis didn’t run their whole regime on end times theology. However, they were fascinated by the occult and fascinated. I mean, Nazi Germany and Iran, Iran is a — was Persia. It was the relationship with the Nazis that made them turn their name to Iran, which is not Arabic.
PAT: You mean Aryan?
GLENN: It means Aryan.
ROSENBERG: It’s actually predates the Nazis. But officially in 1935, but it is an Aryan country ethnically and obviously there is a deep connection there.
GLENN: No, it was — but it was suggested by the Nazi advisors or something, if I’m not mistaken. It’s been like a year and a half since I’ve done the research on it.
ROSENBERG: Well, the time frame is right, 1935, March. Hitler was certainly rising and the Persian leaders definitely felt a kinship there to Nazi Germany. And there’s no question that President Ahmadinejad now is trying to accomplish what Hitler did then. And if he — you know, we talk about in your new documentary, which I haven’t seen the whole thing. I’ve only seen clips.
GLENN: Oh, it’s amazing.
ROSENBERG: But even in the trailer, you know, you make the point that if Ahmadinejad and Khomeini, the current leaders of Iran, are able to get a nuclear warhead and attach it to a high-speed ballistic missile — they haven’t done it yet but they’re getting closer — they could do in six minutes what Adolf Hitler took about six years to do and that is to kill six million Jews. And that isn’t their ultimate objective, as horrifying as it is. Israel is the little Satan in their end times theology. We, the United States, are the Great Satan, and yet it isn’t meriting the attention –
ROSENBERG: The serious attention of the president.
GLENN: Well, because nobody wants to think these things are true. We are living in a world of illusion, of advertising tricks, PR, propaganda, and people don’t ever want to think that those things are true, that people actually would do those things. Nobody wanted to believe Jeffrey Dahmer, if you’re living next to him, was keeping heads in the refrigerator. Even if you had a sense, you would have denied it because that’s the way people do it. They were like, no, that’s crazy. No, he’s not doing that. But that’s what crazy people or evil people really count on is people just to be sheep and say, “No, that’s not what they’re doing.”
ROSENBERG: That’s true. The difference, though — and obviously you and I have talked about it before is that, you know, a Jeffrey Dahmer isn’t broadcasting his intention.
ROSENBERG: The leaders of Iran are.
ROSENBERG: Because they believe it so deeply. It’s why I wrote the novel last fall The Twelfth Imam which I was, I have to say I was surprised. With everything else political going on and the country focused on economic issues which are very serious, it still was a New York Times best seller. I think people really do have a sense that –
ROSENBERG: — the leaders in Iran — now, this was a fictional version.
ROSENBERG: But still they do have a sense that the things that the Iranian leadership are saying, that those guys actually believe it and that there are implications for us, for Israel, for our allies that our government and others aren’t taking as seriously as need be, given the genocide that the Iranian leadership is talking about.
GLENN: All right. Well, tonight at 8:00 Eastern time on Insider Extreme, I have been working — I shouldn’t say. I suggested this to my team about a year ago and we worked on it, you know, for — I did for about three weeks at the beginning and then at the end I come in and they have been working on this for a year, and it is a two-part series. The first part is just, here’s what they’re saying. Here’s what they’re doing. Here’s what their own people are saying and doing. Here’s how they’re beating them down in the streets. Here’s the history that you need to understand. Here’s what we’re saying and here’s what they’re actually saying to our face and then behind our back. Not even behind your back. In a different language on their own television networks. Here’s what they’re telling their own people. Here’s what’s happened in the year that we started this documentary, this is how much progress they have made. And the last ten minutes go into what Part 2 is really all about: Why? Why would they do this? It could be just because they want power, just because they want this or that but, umm, no. It’s so much deeper than that. And the comparisons. And we begin to lay these out. Between the book of Revelation and the Antichrist and the earmarks of the Antichrist and what the government would be like and what this government over there is doing and who the twelfth imam is. We don’t know. He hasn’t arrived yet. But they — Ahmadinejad closes all of his speeches, “Oh, a la, give me the strength to hasten the return of the promised one.” And if you do an A/B comparison between the promised one and the Antichrist, they look very, very — Joel, am I saying something that’s not true?
ROSENBERG: I think that it’s, in broad strokes it is very true. There are a lot of similarities. You know, one of the questions I got asked in The Twelfth Imam book tour was do you believe biblically from an evangelical Christian perspective that the Twelfth Imam should this person come. We don’t know that he is but Jesus warned a false Messiah, would this be the Antichrist. And I would just say — and I’m not sure we have the time to get into it in detail but I don’t think this is the Antichrist, capital “A.” It certainly would be an antichrist, little “a.” There are some specific reasons for that.
GLENN: I will tell you that the idea of a Caliphate, a global Islamic regime that makes people submit or die that is based in ancient Babylon is enough for me to say, “Whoa, whoa, whoa. Maybe, let’s hang on here.”
GLENN: Let’s look what they’re doing.
ROSENBERG: You and I haven’t talked about this in quite some time. There’s obviously a lot of politics going on last year. But last summer, I’m not sure if you’re aware, last summer in July the Ayatollah Khamenei, the supreme leader of Iran said publicly that he had met with the twelfth imam. Now, what was odd about that is that nobody knows what he’s talking about. Is this a person? Is this a vision that he had? A dream? Some sort of spirit? But three weeks later in July of last year he said publicly that he is the official representative of the twelfth imam on Earth and therefore must be obeyed. It was significant in two parts. One, because he now believes this isn’t just a theory that he believes but a reality that’s about to emerge.
GLENN: And you don’t have Khomeini –
ROSENBERG: Stepping out in front of Ahmadinejad and saying, yes, Ahmadinejad’s been taking about this but I am now the spokesman. And that was a significant change.
GLENN: Okay. Tonight 8:00 p.m. Eastern on Insider Extreme. A new documentary Rumors of War. This one you need to understand. And it’s Part 1. Understand all of the, all of the stuff that is actually going on from the people who are there or working on our side behind the scenes to stop Iran. What is happening? And then Part 2, the Twelfth Imam. That’s tonight at 8:00 p.m. Thanks a lot, Joel, best of luck.
ROSENBERG: Thank you.
GLENN: Best of luck. Bye-bye.
ROSENBERG: Good to talk to you.